Curse

Nessaja · Sep 06, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I put theorycraft in there because... I had to spend my last slot for my Assasin, and I won't be able to make pvp characters untill I buy nightfall. It's all good though, can someone check out how this works?

Irresitible Blow
Hammer Bash
Crushing Blow
Flurry
Critical Eye
Locusts Fury
Caltrops
Shadow Refuge
Res Sig

I think a Zealous Hammer of Enchanting would work best for this.

Basically the idea would be Locust Fury=Double Strike with Hammers (??) Critical Eye + atleast 13 in critical strikes = 4 extra energy each critical you make and a high critical chance. Flurry=high chance of criticals and double strikes.

Caltrops and Shadow Refuge are just in there so it's usable for RA. I would think Wild Blow and something else would be way better if it's used for something like HA.

Give some feedback

Naz

Evilsod · Sep 06, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Double strike only affects Daggers. So Locusts Fury wouldn't be useful. Flurry = 25% less damage, the Thumper is all out damage so dealing 25% less wouldn't help it.

Its just not possible as an assassin. And even if it was, it would be sub-par to the ranger.

TGgold · Sep 06, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

As stated, doublestrikes on affect daggers.
And.
You have nine skills

Nessaja · Sep 06, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Are you sure Double Strike only affects daggers? I mean, was this actually tested? I guess that part needs to be scrapped then. A double strike with a dagger would be pretty damn awesome though.. I "suppose" you can always use AoD >> or Shove... it wasn't so much the backbone of the build.

Sure Flurry = 25% less damage, but the damage output increases with flurry, in addition, with criticals=more energy, and every crit you do from a hammer hurts a lot.

The reason why Thumpers work so well is because they can spam energy spells, assasins can do that aswell, only better. And their damage output will be higher because just about every hit will be a crit.

Evilsod · Sep 07, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

No the reason bunny thumpers work is because there is effectively 2 of them. A complete spike would include Tigers Fury as IAS. Hammer Bash, Crushing Blow, Irresistable Blow and Ferocious Strike (somewhere down the line). With Flurry active you lose the spike potential, which is exactly what bunny thumpers are about.

Claymore · Sep 07, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Could always try berserkers stance, and yes I know its a strength skill, but with no points in it its still 5 seconds. 5 seconds of increased speed 33% and extra 20% adren, full damage. Also with being only 5 seconds long you don't have to worry about wasting the skill by interupting with a skill.

SAPhoenix · Sep 07, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Its just not possible as an assassin. And even if it was, it would be sub-par to the ranger.

I posted a Hammer build previously. Here's the link to it:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10020570

What I can say is this. Firstly, this shows that it is possible to use a hammer as well (or should I say, even better) than a bunny thumper does. Secondly, this is hardly sub par to the ranger, as it kills faster and it degens. Plus 2 KDs is gg.

I've killed other thumpers with it (good for casters too). It strips stances, knocks down twice, isn't dependant on an IAS to be even moderately effective (unlike thumpers, who have to use it to charge their adrenaline attacks), and it degens (Poison+Bleeding+Deep Wound). No bunny thumper can pull that off with a hammer. The poison+deep wound sure, not the bleeding (Unless they bring Brambles, even then, if they dont want to screw with their build too much, they would probably have to rely on a team mate to bring it). An assassin can pull it off in one swift combo.

Its like a dagger combo with a more damaging weapon, plus it doesn't even need an IAS or an elite to be effective. I forgot to edit it previously. Deadly Arts should be at 9 and the rest of the points should go into Shadow Arts.

Two assassins running this against two thumpers? Thumpers=dead

Works even better if you have a monk backing you.

Skuld · Sep 07, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

A/W

"Coward!" {E} (None)
Bull's Strike (Strength)
Golden Phoenix Strike (Dagger Mastery)
Horns of the Ox (Dagger Mastery)
Falling Spider (Dagger Mastery)
Twisting Fangs (Dagger Mastery)
Sprint (Strength)
Resurrection Signet (None)

- Lots of KDs from coward, because of all the dual strikes the thing charges up fast.
- Use Falling Spider -> Twisting Fangs whenever you get a KD from Coward or Bull's Strike.
- Use the combo GPS -> Horns -> Spider -> TF when you want to make a kill.
- Sprint is for chasing.

This can't KD stationary targets with the warrior skills or stuff standing next to a spirit or a teammate making it less reliable than a warrior or thumper.

For use with a smiter.

Nessaja · Sep 07, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

No the reason bunny thumpers work is because there is effectively 2 of them. A complete spike would include Tigers Fury as IAS. Hammer Bash, Crushing Blow, Irresistable Blow and Ferocious Strike (somewhere down the line). With Flurry active you lose the spike potential, which is exactly what bunny thumpers are about.

Aren't you totally neglecting the amounts of crits you would be getting? Crits on hammers hurt...

Skuld · Sep 07, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

But thumpers are for KD.

ubermancer · Sep 07, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

If you want to make a character along the lines of a Thumper, but with a Sin primary, go Dagger Mastery and Beast Mastery.

Its just my guess that Enraged Lunge + Brutal Strike in the middle of a combo ending with Twisting Fangs kinda stings.

Ill actually see if I can make such a build.

--

10 Beast Mastery
15 Dagger Mastery
11 Critical Strikes

Tiger's Fury, Unsuspecting Strike+Ferocious Strike, Fox Fangs, Twisting Fangs+Brutal Strike

You have to use Zealous daggers, and ideally time your skill use so that Ferocious Strike gets off right before Twisting Fangs does, so you can ensure that you have enough energy for Twisting Fangs+Brutal Strike (which really is a brutal combination, dealing damage in wholesale quantities)

--

EDIT: Did I mention that chain kills a 60 AL target in one go, requires no charge time (ie, adrenaline), and can be used every 15 seconds thanks to the high energy gain from Critical Strikes and Ferocious Strike.

Celab · Sep 07, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

the only reason thumpers work is because their IAS is only 6/4 energy for them, which isnt expensive, if warrior primaries could do that they would.

Plus, ferocious strike is a horrible elite.

ubermancer · Sep 07, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celab

the only reason thumpers work is because their IAS is only 6/4 energy for them, which isnt expensive, if warrior primaries could do that they would.

Plus, ferocious strike is a horrible elite.

You got a better idea on an A/R Dagger/Beast Mastery thats pressed for energy? And skill slots?

My build may not be ideal, but it can spike (hard) every ~15 seconds. (an intermediate Ferocious Strike helps get your energy up for spikes)

Celab · Sep 07, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Golden lotus strike, black lotus strike, just throw in a enchantment or hex in there and free energy for j00.

Plus my post was not against the build, i failed to read it, i skipped ahead and read how people think thumpers are good, which i disagree to a certain extent, becuase there are better chains and the pressure from 35 dps from a hammer is always good.

Ignore the BLS and GPS comment, i was thinking about daggers, the things assassins use ^^

--------------------

How is this build energy intensive? Assassins have 4 natural regen, and the ammount of critical hits from the hammer will give enough energy to get a better IAS than flurry. Hell, you can use a freaking zealous hammer.

ubermancer · Sep 07, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Referring to my own build, which uses daggers, and would need more regular energy management then the once-every-other-spike BLS, and the I-dont-have-an-enchantment-in-my-build GPS.

Quote:

10 Beast Mastery
15 Dagger Mastery
11 Critical Strikes

Tiger's Fury, Unsuspecting Strike+Ferocious Strike, Fox Fangs, Twisting Fangs+Brutal Strike

Thumpers are nice simply because you can have more damage in a smaller time frame. Brutal Strike landing a half second after a Crushing Blow (with a Fierce Blow on its way) can convince you of that fact fairly effectively.

Evilsod · Sep 08, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Referring to my own build, which uses daggers, and would need more regular energy management then the once-every-other-spike BLS, and the I-dont-have-an-enchantment-in-my-build GPS.

Thumpers are nice simply because you can have more damage in a smaller time frame. Brutal Strike landing a half second after a Crushing Blow (with a Fierce Blow on its way) can convince you of that fact fairly effectively.

Brutal Strike... landing on a foe 1/2 second after Crushing Blow is nice... er if 1... the enemy gives a toss that you just dazed them and 2... if your pet isn't still attacking the last person you were hitting. Thumper spikes are about changing target, so are all warrior spikes. You can't spike someone who your enemy monks know is been targetted so will be focus healing that target. You CAN and will most likely suceed changing targets to spike. In TA playing thumper i've killed many a target by simply chasing the monk down then changing target as he ran past a fellow caster and quickly spiking them down.

The harrasment from a 'critical hammer' can't compete with the harrassment from a constant IAS KD spamming bunny thumper. I've tried with 'critical x' builds before (as a critical axe w/ Triple Chop) and found them to be reasonably effective. But the damage from a lvl15/16 Axe warrior would out do it. Just like the damage from a lvl16 Hammer warrior could out do it. They may also be able to outdamage a Bunny Thumper, but they can't beat it in the ability to harass targets, not bothering to kite brings severe penalties when dealing with bunny thumpers.

Edit: Regarding dazed, i was thinking of another skill, but the problems with it still remains the same.

ubermancer · Sep 08, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutal Strike

Your animal companion attempts a Brutal Strike that deals +5...29 damage. If the attack strikes a foe whose health is below 50% that foe takes an additional +5...29 damage.

So, um, what was wrong with my version again? That it cant change targets?

Evilsod · Sep 08, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

So, um, what was wrong with my version again? That it cant change targets?

So did you actually read my post or did you stop when you read the bit about Brutal Strike?

Spura · Sep 09, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessaja

Aren't you totally neglecting the amounts of crits you would be getting? Crits on hammers hurt...

Not if you have low weapon attribute. And Tiger's Fury hurts way more than criticals. And pet hurts also. Assassin thumper is one of the dumbest ideas I've seen here. Sticking any weapons but daggers is generally not worth it. It can be done, but it is usually far outdone by that class.

ubermancer · Sep 09, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

So did you actually read my post or did you stop when you read the bit about Brutal Strike?

Did you read MINE?

I am not suggesting hammer use at all, or using Critical Strikes to boost the damage of another class's weapon, so we can throw out the entire second paragraph.

And the bulk of the first is about the effectiveness of changing targets. This is completly true, the ability to switch rapidly is a great strength. But I dont see how my build, forced as it may be (Im certainly not running it), really lacks in the areas you addressed in your first paragraph - changing targets. Something my build is admittably weak in, but I think its a good first step towards an A/R Dagger/Beast Master.